and he was on his way to california. so he said, "i'm going to call you from california at your home, and i'm going to tell you that i'm going to come out endorsing ross perot for the presidency." c-span: and he thought that the bush administration was afraid of this? >> guest: yes. yes. actually, both sides might think, "well, what was going on with richard nixon if he's endorsing ross perot?" so he said, "i'm going to tell you that i'm endorsing ross perot. i want you to keep a straight face and a straight voice. don't let on to anything." and he said, "we're going to set this person up if, in fact, there are wiretaps on my phone." so he flew to california, he called me, we went through this little episode, and then nothing ever came of it. so either his phones weren't tapped or nobody thought enough of it to leak it. but it was just one of his little experiments. c-span: hugh sidey came to visit on day, the former time magazine journalist. i -- maybe he's still -- i think he might still write for them sometimes. he ha